Resources For SDAs Only Solid Proof that Ellen White Never Became Trinitarian
| Solid Proof that Ellen White Never Became Trinitarian |
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There are many professed Seventh-day Adventists who, in support of the trinity doctrine, say that Ellen White changed the anti-trinitarian thinking of the church by writing a book called "The Desire of Ages" in 1898.They say that when people began to read this book they came to understand that God is really a trinity. They say it was Ellen White who changed the thinking of the church. Now, let us notice something most significant. Most of us are reasonably familiar with Scripture and the writings of Ellen White; so I want to ask this: Do you agree that Ellen G. White would've been classed as a false prophet if she held "heretical views" on the Godhead? Do you agree that Ellen G. White would've been classed as a false prophet if she consistently contradicted herself? Do you believe that God gives revelation to people or groups who subscribe to "heretical doctrines", like denying the Trinity? Friends, I believe with all my heart and soul, that Ellen G. White was/is a True Prophet of God - The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, David, Elijah, Daniel, John the Baptist, Paul, and John the Revelator. Furthermore, my objective is not necessarily to disprove the trinity doctrine. My prime purpose is to interpret Ellen White's statements [on whatever subject] so that nothing contradicts (RH, November 25, 1884 par. 24). In an effort to do that very thing, it will be proven that Ellen White was NOT a trinitarian. It will be proven that those who advocate her as being "trinitarian", thus make her into a false prophet. And more importantly, it will be proven how the trinity doctrine destroys the Atonement and the Sanctuary Service messages. I cannot overstate how vital it is that we understand this. Now please, let us review the Desire of Ages paragraph immediately above, this time, paying extra attention to the portions that are underlined, as well as the portion that is capitalized: DA 671: "The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this Satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer. It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. CHRIST HAS GIVEN HIS SPIRIT AS A DIVINE POWER TO OVERCOME ALL HEREDITARY AND CULTIVATED TENDENCIES TO EVIL, AND TO IMPRESS HIS OWN CHARACTER UPON HIS CHURCH." Most SDAs do not recognize the subject of the Godhead as a Landmark or Pillar doctrine of pioneer Seventh-day Adventism: "Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ, are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor." (E.G. White, Manuscript Releases 760 9.5) "I entreat every one to be clear and firm regarding the certain truths that we have heard and received and advocated. The statements of God's Word are plain. Plant your feet firmly on the platform of eternal truth. Reject every phase of error, even though it be covered with a semblance of reality, which denies the personality of God and of Christ." (Review and Herald, August 31, 1905 par. 11) "The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared: "I and My Father are one." Yet it was the Son of God who came to the world in human form. Laying aside His royal robe and kingly crown, He clothed His divinity with humanity, that humanity through His infinite sacrifice might become partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust." (9T pages 67-68) Is it not interesting that Ellen White does NOT mention the personality of the Holy Spirit in the above statements? IF the Holy Spirit has been the third person of the Godhead since eternity past, then why does she not mention Him? The reason she does not is because she elsewhere defines the personality of the Holy Spirit to be that of the life and soul of Christ, and it would thus be redundant to mention the personality of the Holy Spirit as extra to that of God and Christ. What Was the Landmark SDA Teaching Concerning the Identity of the Holy Spirit? "The Power of God in the Third Person.--The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit." (E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37) {1897}. DA 671: "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead ...". The Bible says that it is Jesus, God's Son, whom the Father sent to bless us, turning away every one of us from our iniquities. Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. The "power of evil" is synonymous with iniquity, so unless Ellen White disagreed with the Bible, (and she did not!), we know that the Son is the Holy Spirit - which is the ONLY agency which holds in check or resists the prince of the power of evil or iniquity. Did Ellen White Say that the Holy Spirit was Christ? "Christ declared that after his ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter, who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin. In the gift of the Spirit (HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE), Jesus gave to man the highest good that heaven could bestow. ... The Spirit was given as a regenerating agency, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail. ... It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own character upon the church." (E.G. White, Review and Herald , May 19, 1904 par. 1, 2, 3). Thus we have the landmark pillar doctrine teaching of the pioneers concerning the Godhead. It becomes clear that any other doctrine would work total despite to the Atonement and the Sanctuary doctrine as well as the terms of the Everlasting Covenant, which demanded the death of the Testator. What the Trinity Doctrine blasphemes is the fact that Jesus shed His Holy Spirit FOREVER, to become invested with humanity. This is one of the greatest condescension's of the Incarnation, and the Trinity Doctrine denies this great sacrifice on the part of our Lord, Jesus Christ. The trinity doctrine teaches that this other spirit which is separate from Christ's breath of His own Spirit, His own life, abides in men, rather than the life of CHRIST'S OWN LIFE abiding in men. This is an abomination. This is blasphemy. This is antichrist. James White, J.N. Andrews, and ALL the other SDA pioneers recognized this truth. The regeneration--regenerating agency was NOT Christ's death on the cross. It was something else without which "His sacrifice on the cross would have been of no avail". That "something else", was His Holy Spirit mind, soul and breath, in addition to His blood shed on the cross. The other three--the Holy Spirit mind, soul and breath, was shed or laid aside at His Incarnation, to be [later] given to us, as a gift, for the purpose of regeneration-regenerating us into the image of God. THAT was the highest good and the crowing gift that Christ gave to us, NOT only the death of His humanity on the Cross. For without the regenerating Holy Spirit life, breath and soul (mind) of Christ, sin could have proliferated forever. That is another reason why the truth of this issue is so relevant to the Sacrifice of Christ and EVERYTHING He sacrificed - not just the cross. The Cross Sacrifice provided for justification. The Incarnation Sacrifice provided for sanctification. "Christ gives them the breath of HIS OWN SPIRIT, the life of HIS OWN LIFE. The HOLY SPIRIT puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." (E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 827). All this could mean is: exactly what Ellen White says that it means. The Holy Spirit is the life, breath and soul of Christ - imparted to us as a regenerating agency, made possible for the first time under the New Covenant, by Christ "laying aside that life" and "bequeathing it to us". If Christ had not given His original life Holy Spirit as a regenerating agency, then His sacrifice on the Cross would have been of no avail, because man could never have overcome and the Sanctuary would never have been cleansed. The Cross provided justification for sins past, but the Holy Spirit life, breath and soul of Christ, which He possessed in Heaven before His Incarnation into humanity, was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for sanctification, overcoming, and the final cleansing of the Sanctuary. Without this gift the Sanctuary would never be cleansed. This is what Ellen White was referring to, when in the Alpha of Apostasy, she saw THE SANCTUARY GONE--THE ATONEMENT GONE. In other words, IF Christ did not give us His original state-of-being Holy Spirit as a regenerating agency, the Atonement could have never been complete and would have been of no avail. "In a representation which passed before me, I saw a certain work being done by medical missionary workers. Our ministering brethren were looking on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The foundation of our faith, which was established by so much prayer, such earnest searching of the Scriptures, was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith was to have nothing to rest upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was gone." (E.G. White, The Upward Look, p.152). This is what the Omega Heresy of the trinity doctrine has achieved. It completely denies that Christ sacrificed His personal Holy Spirit at His Incarnation. Acceptance of the trinity doctrine makes the Atonement and the Sanctuary Service null and void, because it is by CHRIST'S PERSONAL Holy SPIRIT that sanctification is effected. The trinity doctrine teaches that Christ did not sacrifice His personal Holy Spirit. The trinity doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit was another separate and distinct person from - the person of the Son. Without the sacrifice of the Son's own personal Holy Spirit, AT HIS INCARNATION, to be given as a regenerating agency, the entire sacrifice of Christ would be null and void and the requirement of the FOREVER death of the Testator of the Covenant - would not be met. The Scriptural answer to this conundrum is that the Holy Spirit was and is the life, breath and soul of the Son, until the Son gave up His first state-of-being (pure Divinity) to be forever linked with humanity at His Incarnation. This is the ONLY answer that makes all Ellen White statements on the subject of the Godhead, interpret so that nothing contradicts. James Franks. Hits: 3953 Comments (82)
  written by Paul Steve, October 04, 2009
The First and the only begotten. Are they the same thing?
See : http://everlasting-gospel.blog...otten.html Paul
written by Paul Steve, May 09, 2009
To argue that because the Bible or Ellen White never used the term ‘Trinity’ suggests that the basic concept it encapsulates is heretical, makes no sense at all. There are a number of terms we use to describe biblical concepts, such as ‘incarnation’ for example, that are not used in the Bible. Yet, we do see that the theology described by that term is most definitely found there. Ellen White never used the term Trinity to describe the Godhead, but she did use the term, ‘trio,’ a word that is not found in the Bible either. Should we condemn her for using an English word that describes the concept of the ‘three highest powers in heaven?’ (7ABC, p. 442) No, of course not, she simply chose a
term in the English language that aptly expressed her theology of the Godhead.
written by Paul Steve, May 04, 2009
Ephesians 4:4-6
(4) There is one body, and ONE SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) ONE LORD, one faith, one baptism, (6) ONE GOD and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. ONE SPIRIT + ONE LORD + ONE GOD [the Father] = Three Note carefully that there be no misunderstanding. These three text show very clearly that there is "one" of each... there is one Spirit, one Lord which we know is Jesus Christ, and one God the Father. Already, without going to 1 John 5:7, a text our opponents claim was added to the canon of scripture, we here confirm that there are three, one of each. Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the LORD GOD, AND his SPIRIT, hath sent ME. In this text we have three individuals... the Lord God, the Spirit, and Jesus Christ (sent me). The construction of this sentence shows that each one of these are separate (the Lord God and... sent...). There is no doubt, therefore, that there are three in the heavenly Godhead. Numbers 6:24-26 (24) The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: (25) The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: (26) The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. LORD + LORD + LORD = 3 As with Isaiah 6:3, where the seraphim's cry, "Holy Holy Holy" three times, so here in this text we have mention of y'hovah three times. Coupled with the verses we have seen above in both the Old and New Testament, it's clear that we are dealing with three separate and divine beings, each described as y'hovah or holy, yet they are also described as ONE (UNITY) God. For our Adventist brethren, Ellen White calls this the "heavenly trio: "The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are THREE living persons of the heavenly TRIO; in the name of these three great powers --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ." -Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)
 written by Real Michaud, May 01, 2009
In Heaven. Textual evidence attests (cf. p. 10) the omission of the passage "in heaven, the Father, the World and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth."
The resultant reading of vs. 7, 8 is as follows: " For there are three that bear record, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." The passage as given in the KJV is in no Greek MS earlier than the 15th and 16th centuries. The disputed words found their way into the KJV by way of the Greek text of Erasmus (see Vol. V, p. 141). It is said that Erasmus offered to include the disputed words in his Greek Testament if he were shown even on Greek MS that contained them. A library in Dublin produced such a MS (known as 34), and Erasmus included the passage in his text. Its is now believed that the later editions of the Vulgate acquired the passage by mistake of a scribe who included and exegetical marginal comment in the Bible text that he was copying. The disputed words have been widely used in support of the doctrine of the Trinity, but, in view of such overwhelming evidence against their authenticity, their support is valueless and should not be used. In spite of their appearance in the Vulgate A Catholic Commentary on the Holy Scriptures freely admits regarding these words: "It is now generally held that this passage, called the Comma Johanneum, is a gloss that crept into the text of the Old Latin and Vulgate at an early date, but found its way into the Greek text only in the 15th and 16th centuries" (Thomas Nelson and Sons, 1951, p. 1186). 8.The apostle now recapitulates his testimony, but places the Spirit at the head of the list. When Jesus was baptized, the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove bore testimony to John that the one he had baptized was the divinely appointed Messiah, and God Himself proclaimed His Son's praise. When Christ shed His blood upon the cross, His noble bearing and quiet dignity, aided by the ominous darkness and the earthquake impressed onlookers with His deity. Thus the Spirit operated with the events represented by the water and the blood to affirm that Jesus was the Son of God. These three agree in one. Literally, "the three are for the one thing", that is, the three witnesses have the same objective in view-- to testify to Christ's divinity, that men might believe on Him and be saved. SDA Bible Commentary vol.7 pg 675
written by Paul Steve, May 01, 2009
Hope this would appear as a link when i sumbit!
http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2009/04/did-ellen-white-believe-in-three-person.html
written by Paul Steve, May 01, 2009
Hello everyone,
Check out this article on Everlasting Gospel site. Some of my previous posts have been from this site and they have added more material on to this link. It is worth looking: http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/2009/04/did-ellen-white-believe-in-three-person.html The article includes the following sections: - Who is Melchisedec? - Holy Spirit is the Soul of Christ and not a Third person? - How can Lucifer be next in honor to Christ? - How can Holy Spirit divest of something he never had? - She said Jesus was not God Almighty - Why did God confer special honor upon Christ? - Was there a time Christ was not? blessings Paul
 written by Kevin McGill, May 01, 2009
Ellen White never used the term "trinity," although she did refer to the "three living persons of the heavenly trio" (Evangelism, p. 615). She believed in the full deity of Christ, stating that "Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore" (Review and Herald, April 5, 1906). She also referred to the Holy Spirit as "the Third Person of the Godhead" (The Desire of Ages, p. 671). Her comments, as collected in Evangelism, pages 613-617, suggest that she believed that the Scriptures taught the existence of three co-eternal divine persons.
Even without Ellen White. I find strong biblical evidence for the Godhead. 1 John 5:7 says,"For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one." (KJV) I have read on both sides of the issue, I was not attached to a "belief in the trinity" and I almost gave it up as a result of the questions I had through this website, however I ultimately found the most cohesion in a biblical support of the Godhead. I have read all of the posts on this forum and the Adventist understanding of the Trinity is, in my mind, the most biblical. I must say the original reason I studied this issue was because I began to believe that Ellen G White did not believe in the Trinity... that was because of this particular post, but I searched the bible, and Ellen G White... and found that this particular post was misleading. God bless, it is not my purpose to convince you of my belief... however this is my honest belief. I can agree to disagree, and if my belief is misguided I pray that I will be lead to truth, but I seek truth with a pure heart knowing that for now I only know in part...
written by Real Michaud, May 01, 2009
did Mrs. White ever mention the word trinity in her writtings? did she ever promote the dogma of the trinity? if so...where?
written by Kevin McGill, April 17, 2009
I have seen, through my own readings, and the numerous posts by Paul Steve how Ellen G White is consistent to the bible regarding the Adventist Fundamental Belief in the Trinity. I have completed the bible study on the Trinity that WLC has, and found it to be very compelling. However I was familiar with some of Ellen G White's writings on the Trinity, and because her view, as I understood it was contrary to the view of WLC, I decided to look into it on a much deeper level, and prayerfully so. In my mind Ellen G White is an advocate for belief in the Trinity as stated in Adventist's fundamental beliefs, what took me longer to discern is if belief in the Adventist Trinity, is supported in the bible and bible alone. I have found that the Adventist Trinity is not supported nearly as strongly in the newer versions of the bible (NIV,RSV...etc) as it is in the King James. An example of this is 1 John 5:7, The NIV says, "there are three that testify" The King James says, For there are three that bear record in heaven, The Father, The Word, and the Holy Ghost:and these three are one. This text clearly shows that there are three powers in Heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and all three are in the fullest sense God. I have been amazed in my study to learn how much the new translations omit from the King James Version. John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (KJV). John 1:14 then says, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (KJV) What these texts establish is that there are three powers in Heaven. The Word (Jesus) was in the beginning, is God, and was made flesh for us. There are many more texts that establish the same thing, see Paul Steve's Posts as examples.If people are interested I can show numerous examples of how the KJV has been reworded or flat out omitted from modern translations . I am sure there are many people on this site who are well study on this though, and I encourage everyone to read in the margins of their bible, and compare modern translations to the King James, and compare scripture with scripture. God bless everyone as they study. And I pray that my mind is never shut off from truth.
written by Paul Steve, April 01, 2009
Hey Real, I am just an ordinary SDA who believes in the bible only. The bible only says to believe in God’s prophets. So I believe in the Spirit of prophesy. “Either mr. Steve is honestly confused, or he is an outright Jesuit.” – Is that the way you think OF ME bro, NEVER MIND!!!!!!
SDA’s do not believe in the Catholic trinity (although some may believe ignorantly. After all, many believe lots of stuff ignorantly). Here we go...Catholic Church teaches that God is three persons in ONE PERSON. It is from one person (the father), they later on explain that the Son ( is begotten ) and the Spirit person proceeds (from both); therefore they get a three person out of one person which they call Trinity. That is the basic catholic trinity which we don’t believe. See this Catholic quote (bro, its official, not some odd quote): “Obviously, there can be ONLY ONE infinite Being. If several were to exist, none of them would really be infinite, for, to have plurality of natures at all, each should have some perfection not possessed by the others. ”— The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1914 Edition,art. “Nature and Attributes of God.” [You have just read typical Jesuitic thinking. Unfortunately, there are those even in our own ranks who accept the same conclusion, that there is only one Being who is the eternal God.]- BRO, AM I THE JESUIT? THINK ABOUT IT? What I have supported is not three persons in one person catholic theology, but three persons who are one in UNITY. KEY IS, ONE IS NOT, IN ONE PERSON, ONE IS IN UNITY. Do u get it bro? E.g. In Gensis 2:24, when a man and wife get together, they become ONE, but yet they are two separate persons. So THE FATHER, SON AND SPIRIT; they are one in UNITY. Catholic trinity does not teach this!!!!! FURTHER, God is said to be Love (1 John 4:  . Love always TAKES MORE THAN ONE according to scriptures (Eccle 4:9. ). God is also the Truth. For God to be Truth, there has to be at least 2 persons (Matt 18:16). SO, The Bible/Spirit of Prophecy therefore teaches the truth that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct individuals who are fully separate, fully divine, and fully eternal. Notice this EGW statement: “The ETERNAL Godhead—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost—is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”— Upward Look, 148. This is not pantheism, for these three are also one both in essence and in agreement, purpose and truth. Pantheism is a belief in many separate gods who are different either in essence or nature. A bit like what you and WLC believe; add to this the Jehovah witnesses too; they are my favorites to talk with!!!! - A Bigger God ( Father) and a lesser begotten/created god (Jesus). Woww!!!!! THAT IS PAGAN!!!!!! GOD BLESS YOU
 written by galal doss, April 01, 2009
Dear Real
When someone is determined to believe a lie, then there is no force on earth that can sway him/her. I invite you to rest your case with Paul Steve. From my limited experience of sharing the truth of the Godhead with others I have learned that those willing to see the force of His clear word will see it readily, as they yield their minds to the convicting power of the Holy Spirit. However, those who are determined not to see it will keep finding arguments for not seeing it. And arguments they will find. At WLC we present our convictions with the boldness of His Spirit. And we freely allow others to disagree with us. Their comments, objections, ridicule, etc... are left for the record to serve as testimony against them, and for the truth. \"For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth\" 2 Cor. 13:8. In His love and service, WLC Team.
written by Real Michaud, April 01, 2009
will someone at WLC Team chime in on this discussion. I need help. Steve is bascially calling you guys Catholic or believing in Catholic dogmas.
I have done everything I can do with this discussion. I do not think steve wants an honest conversation. Either mr. Steve is honestly confused, or he is an outright Jesuit. I say Jesuit because to much circular logic and double talk is being used on his part. I hope and pray Steve is honestly confused and mislead, but if not and he is a Jesuit or Catholic practitioner I will ignore all conversation from steve. God bless
written by Paul Steve, April 01, 2009
http://adventist-defense-leagu...ne-we.html
See also who Melchisedec is? If understood, This would settle once and for all who the Holy Spirit really is. http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/2009/03/trinity-doctrine-who-is-melchisedec.html God bless you all
written by Paul Steve, April 01, 2009
Check this link. Answers many issues with regard to three in unity or united or Three person Godhead:
http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/2009/03/honest-look-into-trinity-doctrine-we.html See also who Melchisedec is? If understood, This would settle once and for all who the Holy Spirit really is. http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/2009/03/trinity-doctrine-who-is-melchisedec.html God bless you all
written by Paul Steve, April 01, 2009
------have you ever read the Bible? It says "Son of God" for Jesus at least 300 times in the new testament. It says begotten at least half as many times. Words mean something or the Bible is nothing but fable and cannot be trusted to have any coherent meaning. Son of God means just that...Son of God. Begotten means that....begotten, or born of.-----
Brother, I may have not read he bible as much as you have, but the bible tells us that Jesus always existed, but there was a point in time in history when the Father said of Jesus... "I WILL BE (Greek: future tense) to him a Father and he SHALL BE to me a Son." -Hebrews 1:5. Christ is called "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world", but he was not slain till he was crucified (Revelation 13: . The same way he was not begotten till the bible says he was begotten. The origin of Jesus' as Messiah (the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world or begotten Son), therefore, is from everlasting. It is unknown when this PLAN was conceived or planed, but nevertheless, it was planned, and he was crowned as the coming Messiah. For our Adventist brethren, this is why it seems like Ellen White speaks of Jesus as being "begotten" before the world came into existence. Because as Messiah he was begotten from everlasting. From of old this plan was set up, when and second person of the Heavenly Trio was chosen by the Father (Hebrews 1:5) to be the Son of God who would come and die for the world. But in order for our human minds to comprehend some of how this plan was established, or decided upon, she explains it in the following way: "This work began in the heavenly courts...The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin." -Counsels on Health, 222. The Godhead knew from of old, because God knows everything from the beginning, that man was going to fall. It was therefore decided that Jesus would become the lamb offering that would die for our sins. To try to get any deeper then this which is revealed to us from Holy Scriptures about Christ's existence before his Messiah hood would mean to speculate. ---It is not Catholic to believe that Jesus was born of God, but he is not of the same substance. He is a separate being.---- Catholism and Christianity may have similar concepts. For christians, such concepts should be as long as it is supported by the bible. Brother, Catholics have a similar concept of "a begotten and a impersonal spirit dogma" as WLC believe. I have shown this from official catholic quotes. Nobody can deny this (if you are not yet sure, dig more deeper for yourselves)! But bro, there is no scriptural support from the bible nor EGW for yours or the catholic dogma (see my posts). Inspired word does not teach such a concept. ---Here is what Elder Bates said of the Holy Spirit.It is not a person walking around on foot, or flying as a literal being, in any such sense as Christ and the Father are - at least, if it is, it is utterly beyond my comprehension of the meaning of language or words. Letter from G. I. Butler to J. H. Kellogg, April 5, 1904)The reason Butler said this was because Kellogg admitted that he belived in the Trinity.------ Brother, I’ll will have to go with the words of the INSPIRED pioneer: “We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899.Evangelism, 616.
written by Real Michaud, April 01, 2009
have you ever read the Bible? It says "Son of God" for Jesus at least 300 times in the new testament. It says begotten at least half as many times. Words mean something or the Bible is nothing but fable and cannot be trusted to have any coherent meaning. Son of God means just that...Son of God. Begotten means that....begotten, or born of. It is not Catholic to believe that Jesus was born of God, but he is not of the same substance. He is a seperate being.
Here is what Elder Bates said of the Holy Spirit. God dwells in us by His Holy Spirit, as a Comforter, as a Reprover, especially the former. When we come to Him we partake of Him in that sense, because the Spirit comes forth from him; it comes forth from the Father and the Son. It is not a person walking around on foot, or flying as a literal being, in any such sense as Christ and the Father are - at least, if it is, it is utterly beyond my comprehension of the meaning of language or words. (Letter from G. I. Butler to J. H. Kellogg, April 5, 1904) The reason Butler said this was because Kellogg admitted that he belived in the Trinity.
written by Paul Steve, March 30, 2009
It is INSIDE Roman Catholic theology that we find the seeds of the modern errors that Christ had a beginning and is not eternal, and the Holy Spirit does not really exist. Is this what you want to believe? error originated by Catholic priests—or the Bible/Spirit of Prophecy truth that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are distinct individuals who are fully separate, fully divine, and fully eternal?
written by Paul Steve, March 30, 2009
“The Son proceeds from the Father by generation (and generation means the process of begetting offspring, reproduction, or giving birth to)...” The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p 31 by Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., Imprimatur - September 16, 1957.
For anyone to believe that at some time in eternity, this One Father-God literally gave birth to, or generated, reproduced, produced, cloned, created, split off etc., a Son out of His own Being, is believing in the Trinity doctrine of Catholicism which is founded upon the mysteries of Babylon!
written by Paul Steve, March 30, 2009
Some quotes that were quoted are from p. 32 of an official Roman Catholic book, entitled My Catholic Faith. Let me repeat this again. In that, their Trinity concept contains the same basic error that some within our own ranks are now teaching including the WLC: (1) The Son came out of the Father, beginning ong ago; so He is not eternal. (2) The Holy Spirit has no separate existence, but only as He keeps coming out of the others. (3) God is one in person. Do you want to teach—or even believe—the Catholic error which our pioneer writers so earnestly opposed?
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Matt. 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the SON and of the holy spirit
It is interesting that Matthew 28:19 says ‘name,’ not ‘names,’ of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That is because the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is inseparably joined by a singular common name, just like a married couple have one family name.
John 14:16 and I will request the Father and he will give YOU another helper to be with YOU forever
11 Cor. 13:14 The undeserved kindness of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the sharing in the holy spirit be with all of YOU.
John 14: 26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU.
Isaiah 63:8-10 So it was to them that he came to be a Savior. During all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger saved them. But they themselves rebelled and made his holy spirit feel hur
Isaiah 61:1 The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, for the reason that Jehovah has anointed me to tell good news to the meek ones.
Ephesians 4:4-6 One body there is, and one spirit, even as YOU were called in the one hope to which YOU were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all [persons], who is over all and through all and in all.
Note carefully that there be no misunderstanding. These three text show very clearly that there is "one" of each... there is one Spirit, one Lord which we know is Jesus Christ, and one God the Father.
11 Cor. 1:21,22 But he who guarantees that YOU and we belong to Christ and he who has anointed us is God. He has also put his seal upon us and has given us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit, in our hearts.
1 Cor 12:4-6 Now there are varieties of gifts, but there is the same spirit; and there are varieties of ministries, and yet there is the same Lord; and there are varieties of operations, and yet it is the same God who performs all the operations in all persons.
John 16:13,15 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU.