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Resources For SDAs Only Solid Proof that Ellen White Never Became Trinitarian
Resources For SDAs Only Solid Proof that Ellen White Never Became Trinitarian
| Solid Proof that Ellen White Never Became Trinitarian |
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There are many professed Seventh-day Adventists who, in support of the trinity doctrine, say that Ellen White changed the anti-trinitarian thinking of the church by writing a book called "The Desire of Ages" in 1898.They say that when people began to read this book they came to understand that God is really a trinity. They say it was Ellen White who changed the thinking of the church. Now, let us notice something most significant. Most of us are reasonably familiar with Scripture and the writings of Ellen White; so I want to ask this: Do you agree that Ellen G. White would've been classed as a false prophet if she held "heretical views" on the Godhead? Do you agree that Ellen G. White would've been classed as a false prophet if she consistently contradicted herself? Do you believe that God gives revelation to people or groups who subscribe to "heretical doctrines", like denying the Trinity? Friends, I believe with all my heart and soul, that Ellen G. White was/is a True Prophet of God - The God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah, Moses, David, Elijah, Daniel, John the Baptist, Paul, and John the Revelator. Furthermore, my objective is not necessarily to disprove the trinity doctrine. My prime purpose is to interpret Ellen White's statements [on whatever subject] so that nothing contradicts (RH, November 25, 1884 par. 24). In an effort to do that very thing, it will be proven that Ellen White was NOT a trinitarian. It will be proven that those who advocate her as being "trinitarian", thus make her into a false prophet. And more importantly, it will be proven how the trinity doctrine destroys the Atonement and the Sanctuary Service messages. I cannot overstate how vital it is that we understand this. Now please, let us review the Desire of Ages paragraph immediately above, this time, paying extra attention to the portions that are underlined, as well as the portion that is capitalized: DA 671: "The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this Satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer. It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. CHRIST HAS GIVEN HIS SPIRIT AS A DIVINE POWER TO OVERCOME ALL HEREDITARY AND CULTIVATED TENDENCIES TO EVIL, AND TO IMPRESS HIS OWN CHARACTER UPON HIS CHURCH." Most SDAs do not recognize the subject of the Godhead as a Landmark or Pillar doctrine of pioneer Seventh-day Adventism: "Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the personality of God or of Christ, are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor." (E.G. White, Manuscript Releases 760 9.5) "I entreat every one to be clear and firm regarding the certain truths that we have heard and received and advocated. The statements of God's Word are plain. Plant your feet firmly on the platform of eternal truth. Reject every phase of error, even though it be covered with a semblance of reality, which denies the personality of God and of Christ." (Review and Herald, August 31, 1905 par. 11) "The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared: "I and My Father are one." Yet it was the Son of God who came to the world in human form. Laying aside His royal robe and kingly crown, He clothed His divinity with humanity, that humanity through His infinite sacrifice might become partakers of the divine nature and escape the corruption that is in the world through lust." (9T pages 67-68) Is it not interesting that Ellen White does NOT mention the personality of the Holy Spirit in the above statements? IF the Holy Spirit has been the third person of the Godhead since eternity past, then why does she not mention Him? The reason she does not is because she elsewhere defines the personality of the Holy Spirit to be that of the life and soul of Christ, and it would thus be redundant to mention the personality of the Holy Spirit as extra to that of God and Christ. What Was the Landmark SDA Teaching Concerning the Identity of the Holy Spirit? "The Power of God in the Third Person.--The prince of the power of evil can only be held in check by the power of God in the third person of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit." (E.G. White, Special Testimonies, Series A, No. 10, p. 37) {1897}. DA 671: "Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead ...". The Bible says that it is Jesus, God's Son, whom the Father sent to bless us, turning away every one of us from our iniquities. Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. The "power of evil" is synonymous with iniquity, so unless Ellen White disagreed with the Bible, (and she did not!), we know that the Son is the Holy Spirit - which is the ONLY agency which holds in check or resists the prince of the power of evil or iniquity. Did Ellen White Say that the Holy Spirit was Christ? "Christ declared that after his ascension, he would send to his church, as his crowning gift, the Comforter, who was to take his place. This Comforter is the Holy Spirit,--the soul of his life, the efficacy of his church, the light and life of the world. With his Spirit Christ sends a reconciling influence and a power that takes away sin. In the gift of the Spirit (HIS LIFE--THE SOUL OF HIS LIFE), Jesus gave to man the highest good that heaven could bestow. ... The Spirit was given as a regenerating agency, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail. ... It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given his Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and to impress his own character upon the church." (E.G. White, Review and Herald , May 19, 1904 par. 1, 2, 3). Thus we have the landmark pillar doctrine teaching of the pioneers concerning the Godhead. It becomes clear that any other doctrine would work total despite to the Atonement and the Sanctuary doctrine as well as the terms of the Everlasting Covenant, which demanded the death of the Testator. What the Trinity Doctrine blasphemes is the fact that Jesus shed His Holy Spirit FOREVER, to become invested with humanity. This is one of the greatest condescension's of the Incarnation, and the Trinity Doctrine denies this great sacrifice on the part of our Lord, Jesus Christ. The trinity doctrine teaches that this other spirit which is separate from Christ's breath of His own Spirit, His own life, abides in men, rather than the life of CHRIST'S OWN LIFE abiding in men. This is an abomination. This is blasphemy. This is antichrist. James White, J.N. Andrews, and ALL the other SDA pioneers recognized this truth. The regeneration--regenerating agency was NOT Christ's death on the cross. It was something else without which "His sacrifice on the cross would have been of no avail". That "something else", was His Holy Spirit mind, soul and breath, in addition to His blood shed on the cross. The other three--the Holy Spirit mind, soul and breath, was shed or laid aside at His Incarnation, to be [later] given to us, as a gift, for the purpose of regeneration-regenerating us into the image of God. THAT was the highest good and the crowing gift that Christ gave to us, NOT only the death of His humanity on the Cross. For without the regenerating Holy Spirit life, breath and soul (mind) of Christ, sin could have proliferated forever. That is another reason why the truth of this issue is so relevant to the Sacrifice of Christ and EVERYTHING He sacrificed - not just the cross. The Cross Sacrifice provided for justification. The Incarnation Sacrifice provided for sanctification. "Christ gives them the breath of HIS OWN SPIRIT, the life of HIS OWN LIFE. The HOLY SPIRIT puts forth its highest energies to work in the heart and mind." (E.G. White, Desire of Ages, p. 827). All this could mean is: exactly what Ellen White says that it means. The Holy Spirit is the life, breath and soul of Christ - imparted to us as a regenerating agency, made possible for the first time under the New Covenant, by Christ "laying aside that life" and "bequeathing it to us". If Christ had not given His original life Holy Spirit as a regenerating agency, then His sacrifice on the Cross would have been of no avail, because man could never have overcome and the Sanctuary would never have been cleansed. The Cross provided justification for sins past, but the Holy Spirit life, breath and soul of Christ, which He possessed in Heaven before His Incarnation into humanity, was ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for sanctification, overcoming, and the final cleansing of the Sanctuary. Without this gift the Sanctuary would never be cleansed. This is what Ellen White was referring to, when in the Alpha of Apostasy, she saw THE SANCTUARY GONE--THE ATONEMENT GONE. In other words, IF Christ did not give us His original state-of-being Holy Spirit as a regenerating agency, the Atonement could have never been complete and would have been of no avail. "In a representation which passed before me, I saw a certain work being done by medical missionary workers. Our ministering brethren were looking on, watching what was being done, but they did not seem to understand. The foundation of our faith, which was established by so much prayer, such earnest searching of the Scriptures, was being taken down, pillar by pillar. Our faith was to have nothing to rest upon--the sanctuary was gone, the atonement was gone." (E.G. White, The Upward Look, p.152). This is what the Omega Heresy of the trinity doctrine has achieved. It completely denies that Christ sacrificed His personal Holy Spirit at His Incarnation. Acceptance of the trinity doctrine makes the Atonement and the Sanctuary Service null and void, because it is by CHRIST'S PERSONAL Holy SPIRIT that sanctification is effected. The trinity doctrine teaches that Christ did not sacrifice His personal Holy Spirit. The trinity doctrine teaches that the Holy Spirit was another separate and distinct person from - the person of the Son. Without the sacrifice of the Son's own personal Holy Spirit, AT HIS INCARNATION, to be given as a regenerating agency, the entire sacrifice of Christ would be null and void and the requirement of the FOREVER death of the Testator of the Covenant - would not be met. The Scriptural answer to this conundrum is that the Holy Spirit was and is the life, breath and soul of the Son, until the Son gave up His first state-of-being (pure Divinity) to be forever linked with humanity at His Incarnation. This is the ONLY answer that makes all Ellen White statements on the subject of the Godhead, interpret so that nothing contradicts. James Franks. Hits: 3955 Comments (82)
  written by Real Michaud, March 22, 2009
"The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared: "I and My Father are one." (9T pages 67-6
How are they one Steve? They are one through the Holy Spirit! Act 10:38 even Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Here in Acts 10 we see that God anointed him with the Holy Spirit and with power. The presence of God the Father was with him, the personality of the Father was with him, which is also the power of the Father, which is the Holy Spirit. Rom 5:5 and hope putteth not to shame; because the love of God hath been shed abroad in our hearts through the Holy Spirit which was given unto us. Rom 5:6 For while we were yet weak, in due season Christ died for the ungodly. Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: for peradventure for the good man some one would even dare to die. Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him. Rom 5:10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, shall we be saved by his life; Rom 5:11 and not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Rom 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned: - The love of God is in our hearts because of what? The Holy Spirit. The Spirit is the Love of God, it emminates from Him, it is Him that is in Christ, and it is Christ that is in us. Mr. Steve you have to admit that everything you have post concerning Mrs. Whites writtings are totally taken out of context concerning the whole of her writtings. Take this writting for instance and see if this measures up to Ellen G. White believing in a Trinity of Co-Eternal beings, of one substance but three different personalities. “Jehovah, the eternal, self-existent, uncreated One, Himself the Source and Sustainer of all, is alone entitled to supreme reverence and worship.” {E. G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 305} 1890 Who is the self-existent, uncreated One? Jehovah. Who is Jehovah? “The Son of God shared the Father's throne, and the glory of the eternal, self-existent One encircled both. About the throne gathered the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng--"ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands" (Revelation 5:11.), the most exalted angels, as ministers and subjects, rejoicing in the light that fell upon them from the presence of the Deity.” {E. G. White, Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 36} 1890 The Father is the self-existent uncreated ONE Jehovah. Words have meaning and the Son of God means exactly that, the Son of God. The Father alone is the one true Almighty God above all. “God, as the supreme ruler of the universe has ever required prompt and unquestioning obedience. Even Christ, in the days of his flesh, was obedient to the law of the Father.” {E. G. White, Signs of the Times, July 22, 1886 par. 2} It says ever here by Mrs. White, that Christ our Savior in the days he was seperated from Glory, was obedient to the law of God the Father. The self-existent ruler of the whole universe is supreme. Above all and in all who believe in Him through his Son the man Christ Jesus. “Christ the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father,--one in nature, in character, and in purpose,--the only being in all the universe that could enter into all the counsels and purposes of God.” {E. G. White, The (188  Great Controversy, p. 493} 1888 Might I ask if the Holy Spirit is an actual person, diety, or representation, manifestation, of a third head, how come only the 'only begotten of God, who was one in purpose, character and nature the only one who could be shown all the counsels and purposes of God. Where is the third person of the Godhead? The Trinity? If the Holy Spirit a co-equal person, where is he in the counsels of God. Why are there secrets from him if he does exist and he is so important? The answer is, is that he doesn't exist seperatly or as simply a force or a manifestation. The Holy Spirit is the actual personality of the self-existent One Himself. Jehovah God. Our Heavenly Father. For God is love, says the Word. God loved so much he GAVE his 'only begotten' Son. His only begotten. The Spirit is not begotten. It is the Life of Christ living in us by the Fathers Spirit. His Holy Spirit! Thus says the Lord God Almight in love.
 written by Paul Steve, March 20, 2009
Is God, the Father and God, the Son persons? You know the answer to this. But is the Holy Spirit a person as God [the Father or the son]is a person?
“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.)” Evangelism, 616. “The Holy Spirit has a personality, else he could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else he could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. . . .” (Evangelism, 617, is indexed as Manuscript 20, February 7, 1906.) How many living persons are in the Godhead? There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.—Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)” Evangelism, 615. Is Holy Spirit the First person of the Godhead or is he the Second person of the Godhead or is he the Third person of the Godhead? “Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead.” The Desire of Ages, 671. “Evil ..could only be restrained ..by the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead.” Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, 392, Is Christ a DISTINCT PERSONALITY, yet one with the Father? “The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father.”—1 Selected Messages, 247 (Review and Herald, April 5, 1906). "The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared: "I and My Father are one." (9T pages 67-6 “Christ, ..‘His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.’ Isaiah 9:6. His goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.’ Micah 5:2.”—Patriarchs and Prophets, 34. Notice: Christ is called the everlasting Father, yet he is a distinct person from the Father. If you say Christ and Father are one person, you destroy the personality of God and Christ. This is exactly what the ‘three gods in one’ theology destroys. Is the Holy Spirit is a DISTINCT PERONALITY, yet one with Christ? “The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ’s name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.” Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324 Note: Christ is the “Everlasting Father” ( Isaiah 9:6). But not the Father in person but one in unity. Christ is also the “ Counselor (comforter)”, but not the Comforter in person, but one unity. Quoting your statement: “The Holy Spirit is not an energy or a force, but the power, personality, and presence of Christ in our souls”. My brother, this teaching is effectively destroying the personality of Christ since Holy Spirit “personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.” 8 Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324. Did the Third person of the Godhead who has distinct personality from Christ ALWAYS exist from eternity AS A SEPARATE PEPRONALITY? Or did He come into existence sometime later? “The eternal heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit—arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.”—Evangelism, 616. This work began in the heavenly courts . .The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin.”—Counsels on Health, 222. “The eternal Godhead—the Father, the Son,and the Holy Ghost—is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”— Upward Look, 148. Conclusion: Ellen White believed in Three Godhead
written by Paul Steve, March 20, 2009
Is God, the Father and God, the Son PERSONS? You know the answer to this. But is Holy Spirit a person as God [the Father or Son] is a person?
“We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899.Evangelism, 616. “The Holy Spirit has a personality, else he could not bear witness to our spirits and with our spirits that we are the children of God. He must also be a divine person, else he could not search out the secrets which lie hidden in the mind of God. . . .” (Evangelism, 617, is indexed as Manuscript 20, February 7, 1906.) How many living persons are in the Godhead? There are THREE living PERSONS of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.—Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, pp. 62, 63. (1905)” Evangelism, 615. Is Holy Spirit the First person of the Godhead or is He the Second person of the Godhead or is he the THIRD person of the Godhead? “Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the Third Person of the Godhead.” The Desire of Ages, 671. “Evil had been accumulating for centuries and could only be restrained and resisted by the mighty power of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead.” Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, 392, Is Christ a DISTINCT PERSONALITY, yet one with the Father? “The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father.”—1 Selected Messages, 247 (Review and Herald, April 5, 1906). "The Father and the Son each have a personality. Christ declared: "I and My Father are one." pages 67-6 “Christ, the Word, the only begotten of God, was one with the eternal Father—one in nature, in character, in purpose . . ‘His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father’ Isaiah 9:6. Patriarchs and Prophets, 34. Notice: Christ is called the everlasting Father, yet he is a distinct person from the Father. If you say Christ and Father are one person, you destroy the personality of God and Christ. This is exactly what the ‘three gods in one’ theology destroys. If one syas “two gods in one”, it still destroys the personality of God. Is the Holy Spirit a DISTINCT PERONALITY, yet one with Christ? “The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ’s name. He personifies Christ, yet is a DISTINCT personality.” Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324 Note: Christ is the “Everlasting Father” ( Isaiah 9:6). But not the Father in person. Christ is also the “ Counselor (comforter)”, but not the Comforter in person, but one unity. Quoting Michaud statement: “The Holy Spirit is not an energy or a force, but the power, personality, and presence of Christ in our souls”. My brother, this teaching is effectively destroying the personality of Christ since Holy Spirit “personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.” 8 Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324. "Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the PERSONALITY OF GOD or of Christ, are working as blind men." (E.G. White, Manuscript Releases 760 9.5) Did the Third person of the Godhead who has a distinct personality from Christ (who is the second person of the Godhead) ALWAYS exist from eternity AS A SEPARATE PEPRONALITY with Father & the Son? Or did He come into existence sometime later? “The ETERNAL heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit—arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.”—Evangelism, 616. This work began in the heavenly courts . .The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin.”—Counsels on Health, 222. “The eternal Godhead—the Father, the Son,and the Holy Ghost—is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”— Upward Look, 148. RECOMENDED LINK: http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/ http://www.sdadefend.com/Defend-foundation/Holy-Spirit.htm http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/The-Trinity.pdf http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-Resource Library/Defending-the-Godhead.pdf https://stepstolife.org/php/view_article.php?article_id=1604 MAY GOD BLESS YOU as you study the inspired word. Paul
written by Paul Steve, March 20, 2009
- The Spirit is the person of Jesus pleading for us.
Response: Rom 8:34 – Says Christ “ALSO” plead for us. That is because there is ANOTHER person who is pleading for us and that is the Spirit according to Rom 8:27-28. - The Holy Spirit is the power of God, not a seperate person. Response: “We need to realize that the Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person, is walking through these grounds.—Manuscript 66, 1899. (From a talk to the students at the Avondale School.)” Evangelism, 616. Holy Spirit has a distinct personality from Christ (to deny this is to deny the personality of God) - “The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ’s name. He personifies Christ, yet is a distinct personality.” Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324 Further Christ is “the power of God” ( 1 Cor 1:24), so is the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:35). However, Christ is no more mere power in 1 Cor 1:24 than the Holy Spirit is mere power in Luke 1:35. Both are persons. (See my response above) - When we grieve the Spirit, we are actually greiving the Holy Father himself. When we lie to the Spirit, we actualy lie to the Holy Father himself. Response: True, this because Godhead is one in unity. To honor the Son is to honor [God] the Father. To lie to the Spirit is to lie to God. This does not detract the distinct personalities in the heavenly trio. - Eph 6:18 Here we are told to pray in the Spirit, not to the Spirit. Why? Because it is not a seperate person. Response: Biblically we are told to pray to the Father. This text does not detract from his personality, it simply says we are to pray in [the power of the] Spirit. (See also Rev 4:2; Rev 17:3) - Here Mrs. White says: 1."The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ." DA-805, U1-46. this means that the Spirit is the actual life of the man Christ Jesus living in you, through the Holy Spirit. How?, the Holy Spirit is the person of Christ given to him by his Father, and then given to us. It cannot be explained, but is is not another seperate person.We are not to speculate on these matters, but to trust that Christ can dwell in us. Answer: Notice: God the Father dwells in us: 2 Corinthians 6:16 (KJV) for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Christ dwells in us: Ephesians 3:17 (KJV) That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, Indeed, Jesus tells them that both He and the Father will come unto them. “We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him." John 14:22-23. Holy Spirit dwells in us: 1 Corinthians 3:16 (KJV) 16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? And yet “The Holy Spirit is the Comforter, in Christ’s name. He personifies Christ, yet [Holy Spirit] is a distinct personality.” Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324 Do you notice that these three powers work in unity? Yes my brother, Christ dwells in us; Christ in you, the hope of glory (Colossians 1:27). Christ dwells in us through His representative who is the Holy Spirit-the comforter who is a distinct personality. The "Comfort" is a key word here. Jesus promised to come to them with comfort; yet He tells them that it will be through "another Comforter," someone else, that the comfort would be coming. It would be the other Person, the Holy Spirit, who would be bringing that comfort. "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18. Indeed, Jesus tells them that both He and the Father will come unto them. "We will come unto him, and make Our abode with him." John 14:22-23. “Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit . . Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then cooperate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf.”—7 Bible Commentary, 908 (Manuscript 11, 1901).
written by Real Michaud, March 19, 2009
Who is Jesus pleading with? God the Father. Guess who Sprit is pleading with? The Spirit is pleading "for the saints according to the will of God. ". Therefore Sprit cannot be the Father or the Son or an extension of him, for he is not pleading with himself. Thus, the Spirit is a separate person jsut like Jesus who “also” pleads” for us.
Is the Holy Spirit a person, or just a force like gravity or magnetism? Let me answer both....the Spirit is the person of Jesus pleading for us. The Holy Spirit is the power of God, not a seperate person. When we grieve the Spirit, we are actually greiving the Holy Father himself. When we lie to the Spirit, we actualy lie to the Holy Father himself. Here Mrs. White says: 1."The impartation of the Spirit is the impartation of the life of Christ." DA-805, U1-46. this means that the Spirit is the actual life of the man Christ Jesus living in you, through the Holy Spirit. How?, the Holy Spirit is the person of Christ given to him by his Father, and then given to us. It cannot be explained, but is is not another seperate person.We are not to speculate on these matters, but to trust that Christ can dwell in us. Here is what Paul says: Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father, Eph 3:15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, Eph 3:16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man; Eph 3:17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; to the end that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, He is saying in essence that power through his Spirit is actualy Christ dwelling in our minds and hearts. Grounded in love, which is the character of God, because God is love. Eph 6:18 with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints, Here we are told to pray in the Spirit, not to the Spirit. Why? Because it is not a seperate person. Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me. Here we see that Paul says that is Christ literally living in us. How? Through Christ's Spirit. Here is another verse that points out that God literally gives us Christ's Spirit. Gal 4:1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all; Gal 4:2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father. Gal 4:3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world: Gal 4:4 but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, Gal 4:5 that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Gal 4:7 So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. It says here that God the Father, the self-existent One, sent forth the Spirit of HIS SON into our hearts. It is Christ in us. Here Mrs. White explains it perfectly. 3."The influence of the Holy Spirit is the life of Christ in the soul" RH-10/26/97. 4."The Holy Spirit which proceeds from the only begotten Son of God binds the human agent, body, soul, spirit to the perfect human-divine nature of Christ" RH-4/5/06. The Holy Spirit is not an energy or a force, but the power, personality, and presence of Christ in our souls. For it says in Genesis. Gen 2:7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. I hope this clears some things up
written by Paul Steve, March 18, 2009
We are told that the Holy Spirit has always been a member of the Three-part Godhead; and He is as eternal as the Father! Not just at Christ's incarnation! Therefore this does not affect the personality of god nor our other pillars. Sin could really be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead. See this:
- “The eternal heavenly dignitaries—God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit—arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.”—Evangelism, 616. This work began in the heavenly courts . .The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave Themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin.”—Counsels on Health, 222. “The eternal Godhead—the Father, the Son,and the Holy Ghost—is involved in the action required to make assurance to the human agent.”— Upward Look, 148. Holy Spirit was tempted in the wilderness: Heb 3:7-9 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, 8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness: 9 When your fathers tempted ME, proved me, and saw my works forty years. Exodus 17:2 (KJV)Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD? V7 And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD, saying, Is the LORD among us, or not? Isaiah 63:10 (KJV)10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. Is. 48.16 And Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, AND his SPIRIT, hath sent me. The “Holy Spirit”—would probably not have been concerned to have His existence known until our world was created! (See Patriarchs and Prophets, 36, and rest of chapter.) From what we read in the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy, it is unlikely that the angels and unfallen worlds knew of His existence in those earlier ages! (Keep in mind that, before the false charges of Lucifer began to be made, the created intelligences did not even realize there was a law that they lived under. There are indications that they did not realize that Christ was divine until the rebellion began.)
written by Paul Steve, March 18, 2009
It is certainly true that Ellen White White Never believed in a three-gods-in-one theory. However she spoke of the three Godhead; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit:
“There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.”— Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 63 (Ev 615). “The three powers of the Godhead have pledged Their might to carry out the purpose that God had in mind when He gave to the world the unspeakable gift of His Son.”—Review, July 18, 1907. “The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race,and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. In order fully to carry out this plan, it was decided that Christ, the only begotten Son of God, should give Himself an offering for sin. What line can measure the depth of this love?”—Counsels on Health, 222. “The three powers of the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus.”—Australian Union Conference Record, October 7, 1907. “We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven,—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,—and these powers will work through us,making us workers together with God.”—Special Testimonies,Series B, No. 7, p. 51 (Ev 617).
written by Paul Steve, March 18, 2009
It was not the Godhead that they were opposed to; but it was the Trinity (defined as Three in one)! However, it should be mentioned that there were nine of those early writers (some of them laymen writing letters to the editor) who mentioned, in passing, that they did not personally believe that Christ had existed from all eternity. —However, none of them denied that He was the Divine Son of God. “Our pioneers” did not write one word in opposition to the three-Person Godhead; they only wrote against the weird Catholic three-gods-in-one theory, called “the trinity.” It is true that a few of our nineteenth-century believers did not realize that Jesus was eternal. There were others who did not know that the Holy Spirit existed.Some argued one way and others another way. There is nothing magical about the “pioneers.” They were normal people who came from all kinds of backgrounds and religions. Just as we have to keep learning today, they had to back then. Gradually, the Spirit of Prophecy clarified more and more points; and our people unified on those truths. Unfortunately, today many are slipping away from our Bible/Spirit of Prophecy foundations. The truths that we need today are found in the Inspired Writings, not in books and articles by our pioneers;— for, at times, they disagreed with one another.
See: http://www.sdadefend.com/MINDEX-Resource Library/Defending-the-Godhead.pdf http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/ Paul
 written by Kevin McGill, March 17, 2009
Now in addition to Ellen White, here are some quotes from the bible to think about...the following is from the 3abn website and is by Pastor Kenneth Cox:
Is the Holy Spirit a person, or just a force like gravity or magnetism? Some have suggested it is God’s Spirit, but does not have intellect or personality. But Scripture never refers to the Holy Spirit as “it.” The Bible says the Holy Spirit has emotions, intellect and a will. These characteristics belong to a person, not some impersonal force. On the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was given in His fullness, the church moved under His directions. The New Testament speaks of His leadership in these terms: “He commanded”(Acts 16:6,7), “He appointed” (Acts 20:2  , “He leads” (Acts 8:29). In communicating with the followers of Christ: “He speaks” (Revelation 2:7, Acts 13:2), “He intercedes” (Romans 8:26), and “testifies” about Jesus Christ (John 15:26). Does He have feelings? The Bible tells us the Holy Spirit can be “grieved,” insulted,” “lied to,” and blasphemed. All these acts and emotions have to do with a person. The Scriptures say that the Holy Spirit is God. As Peter spoke to Ananias he said, “Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit…? You have not lied to men but to God.” Acts 5:3–4 (NAS). The attributes the Bible ascribes to the Holy Spirit only belong to God. Consider how the angel Gabriel talked with Mary. He said, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you.” Luke 1:35. Only by the omnipotent power of God could this miracle take place. Another characteristic of God is to be omniscient, which means to know all. The Bible says in 1Corinthians 2:10–11, “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God…. Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.” The disciples were told that the Holy Spirit would teach them all things John 14:26. Revelation 5:6 speaks of the eyes of the Holy Spirit, “Seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth,” showing the Holy Spirit is aware of all that is taking place in the world. When Jesus was preparing to go back to heaven, He gave this promise to his disciples, “Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.” John 16:7. The disciples were soon to be taking the gospel in different directions. The coming of the Holy Spirit insured He would be able to be with each of them, supplying the comfort and power they needed for witnessing. David wrote of the Spirit being omnipresent in Psalm 139:7-10: “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me.” God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit possess these attributes, which makes them God, as well as eternal. “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” Hebrews 9:14. The great commission given by Jesus includes all three: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” Matthew 28:19. And there is more texts like this...My point is there is two valid sides concerning this issue, it is difficult for me and I believe any person to understand the nature of God. However on this topic "Solid Proof that Ellen White Never Became Trinitarian" It is important for me to evaluate thoroughly before I am able to come to such a conclusion. In love, with the pursuit of truth, ~Kevin Mcgill
written by Paul Steve, March 17, 2009
God has to be more than one person:
1 John 4:8 (KJV)He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. Based on this definition or description of God, there has to be more than one person. Let us reason out that there is one God in one person. That would mean long time ago he was there and nobody else was there. How do we know? Because he is everlasting. So when God was by himself, can he fulfill the description of ‘love’? Yes or no? Can he be God of love? Love always gives. So whom did he love? Did he ended up loving himself. Self love is true true love? Does Love always takes two? 9Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their work:11 Also, if two lie down together, they will keep warm. But how can one keep warm alone? 12 Though one may be overpowered, two can defend themselves. A cord of three strands is not quickly broken. The bible gives an idea that two are better than one in a relationship. But what is better than two? Three. - For God to be righteous he must be three: Proverbs 12:17 (KJV)He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit. What is related to righteousness? Truth. Now how can someone testify himself ‘I am the truth’? Can a person testify he is truth by himself in a court? According to the bible one is not enough. Is that what God says? Isaiah 43:9 (KJV)Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, IT IS TRUTH. In order to say ‘truth’, you need how many witnesses according to THE WORD OF God? Matthew 18:16 (KJV)But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Godhead:All three can say the same: Psalm 25:5 (KJV)Lead me in thy [God's] truth John 14:6 (KJV)Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth John 15:26 (KJV)even the Spirit of truth No why do we have three? God the Father is the Giver Matt 17:11 God the son the is the Gift John 4:10 God the Spirit helps to Experience the Gift. John 14:25 See http://everlasting-gospel.blogspot.com/ - See the section Answering Jehovah Witnesses from the NWT (GODHEAD). The site touches on Godhead. See link: http://everlasting-gospel.blog...erson.html
written by Kevin McGill, March 17, 2009
Earlier in the post, Natalie mentions the quote by Ellen White, "The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden." Acts of the Apostles, pg. 51.
Before this site I hand never questioned the concept of the trinity, but I believe that this questioning is a good thing, however the point remains the nature and spirit of God is beyond human reason and we must consider this in our efforts to "define" God. As to Real Michaud's comments, I also aim to interpret Mrs. White so that nothing contradicts, but that does not mean that I ignore statements as it appears you did of Derek when he quoted, Ellen White's proof that there IS a Godhead. III. Three Persons in the Godhead There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the (442) Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Evangelism, p. 615. {7ABC 441.9} The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.--Counsels on Health, p. 222. {7ABC 442.1} Real Michaud, you also said in response to me,” If you study closely and honestly, you will find that Mrs. White and those around her that were true to the foundation that build the church, that they never mentioned any support for the trinity doctrine" In response to you I am studying closely and honestly, and I encourage you to do likewise...my mind isn't made up on this, but the evidence I see is a progression towards a Trinitarian view pt by Ellen White and then consequentially the SDA church. However I recognize that there is evidence on both sides, I don't want to come to a premature conclusion. I will have to break this post into 2 parts ~Kevin M
written by Paul Steve, March 17, 2009
Holy Spirit - not another person?
- Romans 8:34 (KJV)Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who 'also' maketh intercession for us. Already in Romans chapter 8 mentions that there is another Person who pleads for us, and that is why Christ Jesus is mentioned as ‘also’ pleading. Who is this other person? Rom 8:26 Likewise the SPIRIT also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit ITSELF maketh intercession (pleading) for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Clearly the other person is the Holy Spirit! Who is Jesus pleading with? God the Father. Guess who Sprit is pleading with? The Spirit is pleading "for the saints according to the will of God. ". Therefore Sprit cannot be the Father or the Son or an extension of him, for he is not pleading with himself. Thus, the Spirit is a separate person jsut like Jesus who “also” pleads” for us. - Jesus refers to Him as “another [Greek allos] helper,” one who intercedes for someone else. He is called “another” because Jesus is also a helper (1 John 2:1). EGW: "The Lord Jesus acts through the Holy Spirit; for it is His representative." Messages to Young People, 55. Christ in heaven and the Holy Spirit on earth.."Jesus had assured them that He would send the Comforter, as an equivalent for His visible presence." 3 Spirit of Prophecy, 256. "Before this the Spirit had been in the world; from the very beginning of the work of redemption He had been moving upon men's hearts. But while Christ was on earth, the disciples had desired no other helper. Not until they were deprived of His presence would they feel their need of the Spirit, and then He would come. Desire of Ages, 669. Christ is called the everlsting Father and yet he is seperate person from the Father. Christ is also the comforter/helper/advocate and yet He is seperate person from the Spirit who is another comforter.
written by Paul Steve, March 17, 2009
Many in the christendom define Trinity as "Three persons in one person God". Unfortunately many of my fellow adventist bretheren do have this view. However, in the same way, some in the SDA reform movements (splinter groups) would also have people who would hold on to doctrines which those churches do not approve). This is unavoidable since people are an easy target for the devil to mix error with the truth. What is certain is that God will have a true remnant movement in these last days. If Trinity is defined as "Three persons in one person God", to this i nor my fellow adventist brethern would agree. Neither would Ellen White. What is biblcal is Godhead; defined as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each eternal, and one in nature and purpose, but not in being a single person. One God in three persons; one is not in person, one in unity.
Thus when it says God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4)it implies UNITY. Jesus said "I and the father are one" (John 10:30). One here means unity because Jesus and the Father are two seperate persons and yet part of one Godhead. In Gensis 2:24, when a man and wife get together, they become ONE, but yet they are two seperate persons. So one can be understood as unity! Christ, is he created? John 1:3 (KJV) All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Without him was not any thing made that was made, then he cannot be created! Col 1:16,17 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Same thrust here! He cannot have a beginning: See what Ellen white says: Begotten is not same as created: "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,"-- not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father's person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection. In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. {ST, May 30, 1895 par. 3} What a Saviour we have! It was he that revealed himself to John on the Isle of Patmos, and proclaimed, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." None but just such an ever-living, mighty God, could pay the ransom to save sinners from going down into the pit of death.” -RH, February 18, 1896 par. 4
written by Kevin McGill, March 17, 2009
This question is deffinately indepth, I am being cautious to not make up my mind to quickly on this issue. And again, I agree with Natalie that this subject takes patient maturity...and I desire to examine it openly and honestly. Here are some points that people who have researched how Ellen G White is anti trinatarin may be able to ansswer:
In their thinking, early Adventists associated traditional Trinitarianism with modalist monarchianism which denied the threeness of God and asserted that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are not separate personalities. Ellen White, however, in 1897, flatly rejected this view.She said that when Jesus died on the cross, “Deity did not die. Humanity died” (Ms 131, 1897). This statement of Ellen White more than any other turned the tide from antitrinitarianism to a biblical trinitarianism. Ellen White’s doctrinal statements on God, the divinity of Christ and personhood of the Holy Spirit developed over the length of her ministry. Special Testimonies, B (1905) “The Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fulness of the Godhead, making manifest the power of divine grace to all who receive and believe in Christ as a personal Saviour. There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit-- those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.” (SpTB07 63)
written by Kevin McGill, March 12, 2009 Natalie I agree with you patient maturity is important. I know full well that there is "answers" to both sides of every debate. However I don't want to get into that mind set of this being a debate, I just want to accept what is most biblical and right, as Ellen White said, “The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people,is not a proof that our ideas are infallible". I know that not everything I believe is automatically right.This is a complicated subject, but I believe it is worth understanding. I am enjoying the search...and would apprechiate a thoughtful response to the following: Theological Openness While holding firmly to the basic Adventist doctrines, “the landmarks” as she called them,2 Ellen White was always willing to accept new light. “The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people,” she said, “is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation.”3 During the early decades of our church most of our leaders, including James White, were anti-Trinitarians. Ellen White herself made one or two statements that could be interpreted as anti-Trinitarian. In the context of her description of the fall of Satan, for example, she wrote, “The great Creator assembled the heavenly host, that he might in the presence of all the angels confer special honor upon his Son . . . The Father then made known that it was ordained by himself that Christ, his Son, should be equal with himself; so that wherever was the presence of his Son, it was his own presence.”4 This statement cannot refer to Christ being less or different from the Father in nature since she says on the same page that “He was one with the Father before the angels were created.” Whatever she meant when she wrote this, in the course of time she received more light which eventually led to her very clear Trinitarian statements at the turn of the century. First, in 1897 she wrote, “In Him [Christ] was life, original, unborrowed, underived,”5 and then in 1905 she wrote a warning to our workers connected with the medical work in which she unambiguously endorsed the Trinity doctrine. “The Son is all the fullness of the Godhead manifest” she stated, “the Comforter that Christ promised to send after He ascended to heaven, is the Spirit in all the fullness of the Godhead,” therefore, “there are three living persons of the heavenly trio.”6 2 Only someone who believed the Trinity doctrine would speak of “three living persons of the heavenly trio.” While most of the pioneers were anti-Trinitarians, Ellen White, on the basis of divine revelations, guided the church towards the Trinitarian position. This link can be found here http://www.adventistbiblicalre...ents/Ellen White as a Theologian.pdf I don't necessarily agree with the interpretation given for the "heavenly trio" but what is an honest interpretation of it?
 written by Natalie K, March 11, 2009
It takes a patient and mature person to look at the facts instead of adopting the opinions of others as their own. True education is not in refuting everything that contradicts with what you believe, rather, true education is in objectively looking at both view of an issue before "taking sides". It is therefore to promote and encourage people to objectively search out what is truth and not that such comments as the ones below are kept on this website. I pray that the viewers of the comments below will not take the opinions of others as their own, but will search out the truth of these matters for themselves. The internet has "supportive information" about any and every point of view, such as information that Jesus was the Messiah to information saying that He was an impostor. It is therefore very necessary for people to be objective.
WLC Team
written by Real Michaud, March 10, 2009
If I might chime in. If you study closely and honestly, you will find that Mrs. White and those around her that were true to the foundation that build the chruch, that they never mentioned any support for the trinity doctrine. Remember that in Revelation that Jesus christ is at the right hand of God, where is the Holy Spirit? Is he at the left hand.
Take this verse for instance: Rev 3:11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown. Rev 3:12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name. (This is Jesus speaking) Here is says Jesus has a God four times. And here we read: Joh 20:17 Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God. (Jesus is speaking again) Jesus says he has a Father and a God, and we have a Father and a God. Here again in Romans it says Jesus was raised from the dead from God, and Jesus is Lord. Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved: It says that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus as Lord and God raised him you will be save. Did you know that since the Trinity doctrine has been introduced in to the SDA church that people believe that Jesus raised himself from the dead, or had the power to do so, but deferred this to God. This is the doctrine of immortality of the soul, that Jesus did not die that only his human part died, but his diety never died. This is impossible, because there is not one shred of evidence in the Bible that Jesus could ever take up his own life from the dead. Jesus was human and he died. His spirit, or his breath of life, his soul was given up also, but given back to him by God the Father. Check this out, Mrs White herself pointed out that Jesus was not "God Almighty" There is no one who can explain the mystery of the incarnation of Christ. Yet we know that He came to this earth and lived as a man among men. The man Christ Jesus was not the Lord God Almighty, yet Christ and the Father are one. The Deity did not sink under the agonizing torture of Calvary, yet it is nonetheless 1130 true that "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." {SDA bible commentary Vol 5 1129.7} The Bible says that also. Jesus has a God, and it is his Father. The spirit of God was given to him by his Father, and the Spirit is the personality of God; not another person floating around. I Hope this helps.
written by Kevin McGill, March 10, 2009
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/...inity1.htm
http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/trinity/moon/moon-trinity2.htm I don't expect most people to follow these links, but I am an Adventist that truly wants to be open to truth with an honest spirit of prayer. I don't profess to know all the answers but I am searching, and through this process I am enjoying learning more about God's wonderful nature, it is inspiring to me. I am 24 years old, and have been Adventist all my life, but I am only now really searching, and finding answers to questions. I apprechiate this site, because from my observation so far it is an honest search for truth. I would apprechiate a WLC response to the above links, but I realize I may not get one, if not that is ok and I will keep searching for the answer from this site, as it compares to ellen white, and above all the bible. ~Sincerly Kevin M
written by Real Michaud, February 23, 2009
I agree. that is the problem with the trinity doctrine. it makes the Holy Spirit a literal 3rd person. Everything I have ever read in the Bible and the Spirit of Prophesy never speaks of the Holy Spirit as an actual third living being. Satan wants to be the third person.
To the trinitarians who believe 3 in 1 and 1 in 3 how come are we instructed by Jesus Christ himself to pray to the Father in His (Jesus') name. We are to pray for the spirit and walk in the spirit. To use the gifts of the spirit, but we are never told to worship or pray to the spirit. If one is honest, the Holy Spirit of God is the personal power and presence of God and Jesus in our minds. If you believe that Jesus is not the literal son of God, and believe that the Holy Spirit is an actual third person of the Godhead then my sorry friend you are unknowingly worshiping a false god and worshiping Satan. Its that simple. Pray and read the Bible and if any other writing is not according to the Bible it is not inspired and there is no light in it.
written by Natalie K, February 23, 2009
We should be careful not to lose sight of the fact that the word trinity was invented by the Catholics, and that their understanding of the trinity is not Biblical. As long as we keep in mind that God the Father and God the Son share the same spirit, all is well. "The nature of the Holy Spirit is a mystery. Men cannot explain it, because the Lord has not revealed it to them. Men having fanciful views may bring together passages of Scripture and put a human construction on them, but the acceptance of these views will not strengthen the church. Regarding such mysteries, which are too deep for human understanding, silence is golden." Acts of the Apostles, pg. 51.
written by Real Michaud, February 22, 2009
no where in her writtings does she say the Holy Spirit is an actual entity. If you read the versus I put up it says in plain language that the Comforter who is the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ. Christ said it himself.
Mrs White never meant for anyone to believe that the "third person" of the Godhead was an actual person except the personality, power and presence of Jesus Christ. It is a gramatical statement not a literal belief that the Holy Spirit is an actual person. In Revelation Jesus is at the right had on God the Father next to his eternal throne, might I ask who is on the left side? How come this other person the Holy Ghost the "third person" of the Trinity is never spoken of? Where is he? Is he on earth with Satan during the thousand years trying to convert him? Is he floating around from galaxy to galaxy with nowhere to go. No the Holy Spirit is the personal precence of Jesus in our souls. Period I will bring more to the forefront as time goes on. Sola Scriptura my friends. All things Mrs. White has written must, I reiterate must be validated by the Bible and the Bible alone.
 written by Derick, February 22, 2009
Ellen White's proof that there IS a Godhead.
III. Three Persons in the Godhead There are three living persons of the heavenly trio; in the name of these three great powers--the Father, the Son, and the (442) Holy Spirit--those who receive Christ by living faith are baptized, and these powers will co-operate with the obedient subjects of heaven in their efforts to live the new life in Christ.-- Evangelism, p. 615. {7ABC 441.9} The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption.--Counsels on Health, p. 222. {7ABC 442.1} Those who proclaim the third angel's message must put on the whole armor of God, that they may stand boldly at their post, in the face of detraction and falsehood, fighting the good fight of faith, resisting the enemy with the word, "It is written." Keep yourselves where the three great powers of heaven, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, can be your efficiency. These powers work with the one who gives himself unreservedly to God. The strength of heaven is at the command of God's believing ones. The man who takes God as his trust is barricaded by an impregnable wall.--The Southern Watchman, Feb. 23, 1904, p. 122. {7ABC 442.2} Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is the fulfilment of the covenant that God has made with those who bind themselves up with Him, to stand with Him, with His Son, and with His Spirit in holy fellowship. Have you been born again? Have you become a new being in Christ Jesus? Then co-operate with the three great powers of heaven who are working in your behalf. Doing this you will reveal to the world the principles of righteousness.--The Signs of the Times, June 19, 1901. {7ABC 442.3} The eternal heavenly dignitaries--God, and Christ, and the Holy Spirit--arming them [the disciples] with more than mortal energy, . . . would advance with them to the work and convince the world of sin.--Evangelism, p. 616. {7ABC 442.4} We are to co-operate with the three highest powers in heaven, --the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost,--and these powers will work through us, making us workers together with God.-- Ibid., p. 617. {7ABC 442.5} Those who are baptized in the threefold name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, at the very entrance of their Christian life declare publicly that they have forsaken the service of Satan and have become members of the royal family, children of the heavenly king.--Testimonies, vol. 6, p. 91. {7ABC 442.6}
written by Real Michaud, February 20, 2009
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto the Father. Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask anything in my name, that will I do. Joh 14:15 If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may be with you for ever, Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth: whom the world cannot receive; for it beholdeth him not, neither knoweth him: ye know him; for he abideth with you, and shall be in you. Joh 14:18 I will not leave you desolate: I come unto you. Jesus promised us another Comforter in verse 16. In verse 18 our Lord says, " I will not leave your desolate: I come unto you.(Using the American Standard verson)The revised KJV says I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you. Now everything above is Jesus himself. Who does it say the Comforter is? It says that Jesus is the comforter and he will not leave us desolate. There is no way by reading this that the Holy Spirit which is the Comforter is some third person of the Godhead and/or Trinity. There is no other but the Holy Almighty Father in Heaven and His son the Savior of the World our Lord and brother the man Christ Jesus.
written by Natalie K, February 06, 2009
Thank you, Hadassah, for sharing that. I think that is significant and you should spread the word about it. Thank you again for sharing.
In His love and service, WLC Team
 written by Hadassah Sinclair, February 02, 2009
My husband has been a pastor etc with the SDA for over 60 years. We have an old Adventist Hymnal that includes the song Holy Holy Holy and the last part of the song goes, Holy Holy Holy, God in Eternity, blessed unity, there is no mention of God in three persons, blessed trinity.
 written by Stephen Le Mense, December 09, 2008
Alright, I'll try not to.
It's just hurtful for me to see that SDA's dont know that even the leaders of the SDA churches greet with the Pope..and the SDA Church is just a finger dangling off a hand that is from Roman Catholicism just like how the Protestants are today. I mean, you can give me Scripture verses and all, but why dont you take that to heart and leave the SDA? You dont need SDA, same with all the other "branches" that I've mentioned. You know as well as I do that they need to free themselves from that, and sadly this is the same thing...You got the Bible, all you need to Christ dude. You dont need a Church to define you, nor do you need anyone other than Christ to define you. Im not trying to start anything, It's what I see...All these things are constantly surrounding us and we are to be fully aware of these "fellowships"..it's not going to cut for salvation, not even the single day of Sabbath Day (Saturday) will bring us to salvation..
written by Real Michaud, December 08, 2008
Please do not equate me or my belief system (which is biblically sound) with JW's, Mormons or anyone else. I will show you by Bible verse that everything I said was biblical. My reply will be very soon, so stay tuned!
written by Stephen Le Mense, December 08, 2008
Real Michaud stated: "Christ became man so we could become just like God. Christ is our brother and God is our Father. If Christ could use that power, so can we because we can become just like God. We can become the express image of Christ before God. Our brother Jesus said that his followers would do greater works than he did. Christ was our example. He had the Holy Spirit, now that he is heaven, he is with us through his Spirit."
My reply: You cant be serious... Looking at Christ as if he is our "BROTHER", an EXAMPLE, He's considered a nothing with God but just so happens He is God in the flesh and the son of God? Christ died on the cross for mankind, we didnt...our persecution is brought by following Christ and God Almighty ALONE...That doesnt work around. The things you said, are the same heretical views that got the Catholic Church believing what they are believing, the Jehovah's Witness, the Mormons, the Calvinists, etc.. God sent a revelation, sacrificing of a Lamb who'd redeem mankind...and that Lamb of God was Christ Jesus... Christ is more than a simple man, a mediator, one with power to heal and revive and bring salvation to man... HE IS ALMIGHTY GOD IN THE FLESH AS WELL AS THE HOLY SPIRIT.
written by Real Michaud, December 05, 2008
Christ never gave up the Spirit of God (the Holy Ghost) because it was given to him by his father in heaven. What Christ gave up was his omnipotence and his ability to present everywhere at the same time. Christ became man so we could become just like God. Christ is our brother and God is our Father.
If Christ did not have the Holy Spirit (love and power of God) then what spirit did he have? Christ did nothing without the Father, but he used the power of his Father to feed and heal and to prophesi.(sorry cant spell worth a hill of beans). If Christ could use that power, so can we because we can become just like God. We can become the express image of Christ before God. Our brother Jesus said that his followers would do greater works than he did. Christ was our example. He had the Holy Spirit, now that he is heaven, he is with us through his Spirit. Amazing but true. And thank God.
written by Real Michaud, December 05, 2008
I do not disagree with your answer in total, but it is a fair question to ask. The hymn Holy Holy Holy does have the words, "God in three persons, blessed trinity"
I think that is why the questioner asked the question. Once again to the quesetioner, Holy Holy Holy was in the adventist hymnal for quite some time, but the words were changed sometime in the mid twentieth century to the current, "God in three persons, blessed trinity". It was never originally in there. And to the Administrators of WLC, do not be so pretentous to say you have nothing to say about the SDA church. This article is in the category of For SDA's only. Lets be nice. It was an honest question and viable question, and one that needs to answered.
 written by afolabi samuel, December 05, 2008
First off, we want you to know that we are not part of the SDA denomination and so we cannot answer for them. We are a team of non-denominational volunteers dedicated to sharing the last message of mercy given in the Bible. We urge you to read the link “about us” in the following: http://worldslastchance.com/ab...ound.html
Now to answer your question in details, please know that to sing “holy holy holy” does not make the Holy Spirit a distinct and separate divine being apart from God Himself. The word “holy’ is an adjective which qualifies the spirit to help us know what type it is, whether of God or evil. The Holy Spirit of God is spoken of as God’s “presence,” (Psalm 51:11; 139:7) and this presence is said to be everywhere. In addition, the book of Revelation depicts the heavenly beings singing Holy, holy, holy to our loving heavenly Father in Revelation 4:8. "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." Therefore the Holy Spirit is NOT a separate person from that of the Father and His Son. (See Roman 8:9). Strictly speaking, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father, which “proceedeth from the Father,” (John 15:26) yet at times, the Holy Spirit is called, “the Spirit of Christ.” For example, compare 1 Peter 1:11 and 2 Peter 1:21. Both of these are true, for Jesus received His Father’s Spirit without measure (John 3:34), so that the Son has His Father’s Spirit. The Bible says that God sends us His Spirit through His Son. “Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour.” (Titus 3:5, 6) By this process we gain the added benefit of receiving not only the Spirit of the Father, but also the Spirit of His Son. Jesus said, “If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 14:23) Paul wrote, “because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.” (Galatians 4:6) Jesus said, “I am in the Father, and the Father in me.” (John 14:10) If we receive the Spirit of one (the Father or the Son), we automatically receive the Spirit of the other, for they dwell in each other the same way they dwell in us, by their Spirit. “Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.” (1 John 2:23) “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2 John 1:9) So in conclusion, When we receive the Spirit of the Son, we receive the Spirit of the Father also because the Father dwells in His Son by His Spirit. However, we should not worship, praise, or pray to their Spirit . I hope this helps to clarify your question. In His love and service, WLC Team.
 written by tsikada, December 05, 2008
The idea that Christ gave up the Holy Ghost in the heavenly sanctuary at His incarnation I find fascinating but I am yet to see sound biblical basis or EGW support for it. I find the quote in Desire of Ages places the giving of the Holy Spirit as a regenerative agent by Christ future of His dialogue with His disciples and not at His incarnation. Note the areas in the quote I highlighted, my comments are in brackets:- "In describing to His disciples the office work of the Holy Spirit, Jesus sought to inspire them with the joy and hope that inspired His own heart. He rejoiced because of the abundant help He had provided for His church. The Holy Spirit was the highest of all gifts that He could solicit from His Father for the exaltation of His people. (this refers to Christ's work in asking for the Holy Spirit on behalf of His disciples after His ascension---John 14:16" And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
 The Spirit was to be given ( this means future) as a regenerating agent, and without this the sacrifice of Christ would have been of no avail. (In context, the English language allows this statement to mean that if Christ had not sent the Spirit after ascension, His sacrifice on the cross would have been of no avail in the experience of the saints....this understanding is actually strengthened by the rest of the qoute....)The power of evil had been strengthening for centuries, and the submission of men to this Satanic captivity was amazing. Sin could be resisted and overcome only through the mighty agency of the third person of the Godhead, who would come (again emphasis is after ascension) with no modified energy, but in the fullness of divine power. It is the Spirit that makes effectual what has been wrought out by the world's Redeemer.(at the cross) It is by the Spirit that the heart is made pure. Through the Spirit the believer becomes a partaker of the divine nature. Christ has given His Spirit as a divine power to overcome all hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil, and impress His own character upon His church." DA 672. It is however clear that the Holy spirit is the very life and breath of Christ. But I can find no where in Bible or S.O.P that says that Christ gave up His Spirit at the incarnation.
written by Real Michaud, December 05, 2008
if it is not true that the holy spirit is a person then why do SDAs are singing the Holy Holy Holy?
that is a fair question. I do not have a really concrete answer as to why, but I do know that it was added to the adventist hymnal in the current fashion in the middle of the twetieth century. I do know that it was in older hymnals, but the wording was different not to show a trinitarian bent. If someone from the administration can add to this comment and clarify or correct my answer that would be good. but a fair question
 written by Arvin Jude Rapano, December 05, 2008
if it is not true that the holy spirit is a person then why do SDAs are singing the Holy Holy Holy?
written by Stephen Le Mense, December 02, 2008
Im not Anti-Ellen White. What you replied with "She was only human and fallible. She is not above the Bible, and she never called herself a prophet, but only a "humble messanger of God".. If though by any chance, we start claiming Revelation and starting having followers that uses our references to define/outline a sect/religion/division/whatever you want to call it...That's a problem.
I hope you know where Im going with this...Im trying to make it as small as possible. lol
written by realmichaud, December 01, 2008
I have been accused of that also without a shred of evidence. She has always quoted and referenced where her ideas came from. Also Mrs. White quotes the Bible more than any other source.
Also, why are you so anti Ellen White. She was only human and fallible. She is not above the Bible, and she never called herself a prophet, but only a "humble messanger of God". That is it.
written by Stephen Le Mense, December 01, 2008
I will give examples even with Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith. Stating, "You won't be told at the SDA Seminars about the things they have in common with the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons.
SDA's share their early history with the Jehovah's Witnesses. An early Adventist, N. H. Barbour co-published with Charles Taze Russell. They had a falling out over (what else?) dates for the end of the world! (1844 and 1874), and parted company. Both, however, kept heretical doctrines to this day like Jesus being Michael the Archangel, the denial of Hell, and both still advocate soul sleep. Both invented invisible occurrences in heaven for their failed dates for Christ's visible return, investigative judgment for the SDA's and Christ's invisible "presence" for Jehovah's Witnesses. There is Mormon link also for the SDA's. It is a proven fact that Ellen G. White plagiarized most of her writings. The Church has been challenged by Walter Rea, author of the White Lie to prove that even 20% of her writings are original. They can't. Their weak defense was that there were no copyright laws in Ellen's day, so what she did was legal. You will never be told of her plagiarism by the SDA's. Walter Rae's Book, The White Lie exposes Ellen's snatching of a portrait that was from Great Controversy which had a signature of WR on the right side...yet she cut that out, and changed the size of the picture and placed it in here book. "As Ellen was rising to prominence, Joseph Smith had just died. Her writings contain many phrases used by Joseph Smith. Mind you, he has also been accused of plagiarism. I have a thick file of similarities, but time does not permit details at this time, but it does illustrate just how far her "borrowing" went. You will definitely not be told of her similarities to Joseph Smith at the Seminars!" "Ellen G. White subjects the Bible to the scrutiny of her "Testimonies" through the agent of her own self-proclaimed authority, supposedly given by God. By what reason should a person accept the self-proclaimed words of Ellen G. White over those of the Mormon, Joseph Smith, or the Jehovah's Witness, Charles Taze Russell, or the Christian Science, Mary Baker Eddy? All of them claimed to have received revelations from God, were self-proclaimed prophets, and all of them presented no credentials to verify their claims and all contradicted one another. Someone had to be wrong, and based on their track record of prophecies, it appears they were all wrong." Now I know Seventh Day Adventists are too (with those who know about the Vatican's involvement and try exposing it) considered a "nothing" to the Jesuits. Her "predictions" and documents should be nothing to look at "awe" about. She's not the same as those who wrote the Gospel.. Im not bashing, or lying, etc.. All Im saying is she was doing what many did in those times...That's why we have so many divisions within Christ's people...Look at Jehovah's Witness, and Mormons..Just as heretical as the next one who's making a division. Why follow Ellen if people of those days could've just opened the Bible and didnt hear anything of Christ's shouting, the 7 churches, Babylon the Great is Fallen, the Warning of the Angels, etc.. Again, why need a her to even explain anything and to be given enough attention to, to even make SDA take in her beliefs? It is anti Scripture, heretical, and false following. Ellen White shouldnt speak to people of the Gospel, Christ should. COMMENT REPLY: Oh I know what you meant realmichaud, I just used it to expand the subject as saying "Trinity is wrong, but THEN so is SDA" Heck, we may as well look at just how heretical Westboro Baptist Church is, the Catholics, the Calvinists, the Mormons, the Jehovah's Witness, Protestants arent even Protestants anymore...People are claiming to be prophets, yet they astray from Christ, and turn to a simple religion.. Christ warns us of Revelation, even to say John who wrote it from inspiration of God. And to make her (Ellen White) something bigger than a simple woman with a simple insight, and simply plagiarized insights from other heretics..that's just straight up dangerous. *Message is all in good intention.
written by realmichaud, November 30, 2008
to Mr. Le Mense,
I was not refering to the acceptance of Mrs. White or the rejection of her. I was speaking of the larger picture of the trinity doctrine. Either some people will accept the truth that the trinity is of Satanic origin, or they wont.
 written by galal Doss, November 30, 2008
Hello Stephen
You have made some very bold claims against Ellen White. Would you please share with us specifics backed up by direct quotes from her writings. We are open to receiving anything from your side. And I trust that you will likewise reciprocate and resolve to be as open too. In His love and service, WLC Team.
written by Stephen Le Mense, November 30, 2008
Although she have made good points, she still held on to heretical views. She was wrong on prophecies, she believed the end would come swiftly in her lifetime...I mean, sadly she's an example of how misleading even the Jehovah's Witnesses, Catholicism, Mormonism, others who express false Biblical Doctrines and interpretations was and still is. She even was pointed out as being a partaker in plagiarism. But even though Im not a Seventh Day Advent layman, I feel this has to be pointed out to help those who are, to be freed from even the divisions within Christian community.. Otherwise people are just giving excuses to just create any separation and therefore would try justifying their beliefs even in those outside of Biblical Doctrine. And like what comment ended with "Some will accept it, and some will reject it"...And to add on that is, "Do people REALLY know why to reject and to accept other interpretations?" I mean, if SDA's have to keep Ellen G. White's interpretations in order to understand more of Biblical Doctrine, then I have to ask myself "What is going on here!?"
That's just my comment though, no worries. 8/
written by realmichaud, November 26, 2008
Unfortunatly, that Serpent, the Dragon, Satan twists Mrs. White's writing. Although it is clear the Bible says that the Man Christ Jesus himself is the Holy Spirit, which ishis personal presence in the hearts and minds of mankind, Satan twists statements like, "the third person of the Godhead", and "the three great powers of the Godhead", to mean that the Holy Spirity is a seperate person from God the Father and the Man Christ Jesus.
There is only one God and one Lord who is his son the Man Christ Jesus, who was begotten and sacrificed to save man from sin. The mystery of iniquity is written into the doctrine of the Trinity. It is Satan who wants to become that "Holy Spirit" to become like the Most High. If the false doctrine of the Diety of Mary won't work, he will say that there is another person in the Godhead. A trinity. A mystery. God is no mystery. God has always been and always will be. Jesus Christ our Lord is the Creator of all things, because all things were given to him by God. Yes there are three great powers in Heaven. God Almighty, his son the Man Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit which is the Love and Power of God and his Son living in the hearts of men and women. God is love and his spirit is love. This message will be given to all the SDA church. Some with accept it, and some will reject it. All that can shake is gonna shake! Thank God!
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Response: Since Father & Son each have a distinct personality, they are not one and the same person. And since “Holy Spirit, who is as much a person as God is a person (Manuscript 66, 1899 Evangelism, 616) who has a “personality” and since Holy Spirit “personifies Christ, yet [Holy Spirit] is a distinct personality (8 Manuscript Releases, vol. 20, 324) Christ and the Spirit are not one and the same person. To say otherwise is to destroy the personality of God or Christ.
Argument: Mr. Steve you have to admit that everything you have post concerning Mrs. Whites writtings are totally taken out of context concerning the whole of her writtings. Take this writting for instance and see if this measures up to Ellen G. White believing in a Trinity of Co-Eternal beings, of one substance but three different personalities.
Let me share a biblical principle with you before I respond to your issues. When we say number ONE, we think number one in terms of a numerical. However, in Genesis 2:24, when a man and wife get together, they become ONE, but yet they are two separate persons; One therefore implies UNITY. Jesus said "I and the father are one" (John 10:30). Once again, one here means unity because Jesus and the Father are two separate persons and yet part of one Godhead. Want more proof? 1 Cor. 8:6 & Jude 4 says, Jesus is the “one” & “only Lord”. But Jesus is not the "one and only" Lord, Father is also Lord (Deut 10:17; Mattew 11:25). Therefore in scriptures, the words ONE or ONLY confirms UNITY (ONE) when applied to Father, Son & the Holy Spirit.
Response to the argument:
Bro, you are telling me that I am not taking “whole of her writings to come to a conclusion”. But are YOU really doing that? When Spirit of Prophesy says Holy Spirit is a person just as God is a person and yet is a distinct personality from Christ, you totally ignore this text to SUPPORT your preconceived idea. It is an understanding that destroys the personality of Christ.
Let me also reiterate that when I speak of Godhead, it is not the weird Catholic three-gods-in-one theory that I refer to which makes Godhead no persons. If you want to use the word trinity (I prefer Godhead), then it is defined as the three-Person Godhead for which I have already made a strong case in it’s proper context. Now let me answer your other points taking Mrs. Whites other statements on the subject which u have ignored so that I wilL be considering “whole of her writings to come to a conclusion” so that NOTHING CONTRADICTS.
Argument: Words have meaning and the Son of God means exactly that, the Son of God.
Response: Jesus is God’s Son by nature (What the Father is, the Son is also), whereas we are God’s sons by adoption or by creation (John 1:12). EGW says "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,"-- not a son by creation, as were the angels. {ST, May 30, 1895 par. 3}
Argument: The Father alone is the one true Almighty God above all.
Response: Father is not the one and only true Almighty, Christ is also, the same way Christ is not the “one and only Lord” (see above). See what EGW says:
What a Savior we have! IT WAS HE that revealed himself to John on the Isle of Patmos, and proclaimed, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY." None but just such an EVER-LIVING, mighty God, could pay the ransom to save sinners from going down into the pit of death.” -RH, February 18, 1896 par. 4
Note: “None but just such an EVER-LIVING, mighty God, could pay the ransom to save sinners”. Eternal death can only be paid by a person who has eternal life; that means one who has no beginning; an uncreated being whom EGW calls “not a son by creation” {ST, May 30, 1895 par. 3}.